2006-06-24 [Ocean Soul]: Everyone talks about labels and "don't label me", but there you go.. I don't know exactly *where* that all comes from, but it is really annoying

2006-06-24 [Kelaria]: Labels wouldnt exist if they werent true. Just like how many stereotypes wouldnt exist without being mostly true. It's part of life. And a part that people need to face. I'm labeled as a weirdo, but I'm proud of it! I love being weird and insane. No one's going to stop me from that. Labels are earned, not just randomly slapped on someone.

2006-06-24 [Sunrose]: Wow, that's kind of closeminded O_o Stereotypes totally ignore individuals and are influenced by emotions, prejudice, discrimination and the likes of that. Same goes for labels. Often enticed by fear and/or misunderstanding. Plus the need for structure and control over the environment. Dividing people like this makes them semi-predictable, which makes people feel comfortable.

2006-06-24 [Kelaria]: The problem is that people have become less individualized these days. Look at young teenagers. What are they all doing? Are they all acting like individuals? I'm so sorry to sound this way, and believe me, I am not closed minded, I was once suffering similar discriminations. But lately all I see are these young "goth/emo" kids running around claiming to be individuals, but then acting and dressing exactly like all the other "goth/emo" kids out there. It's actually very sad.

2006-06-24 [Sunrose]: Actually society is more about 'I' than 'us' compared to history and a couple of countries present day (even China is becoming more individualistic). What is sad about choosing a rolemodel? Everyone does that from birth on. Just because you don't like their choice, doesn't mean they are bad people. Individualism has brought personal growth to people, but also decay of social structure. Aside from that it is by far 'all young teenagers' to whom your aggrevation applies.

2006-06-24 [Kelaria]: I have reasons for disliking the emo-stereotype. I know emo people. I have spent time with them. They fake depression and cut themselves for the sole reason of getting attention. That is what emo is. That is what the emo group represents. Because of the emo group I, as a clinically depressed (and diagnosed with real depression, not just teen pathetic depression, which I have seen) person, have dealt with problems of emotional distress and needing real help. But I couldnt get that help because I knew if anyone knew I was hurting myself or anything, they'd slap me as emo and laugh at me. Those emo children are taking attention away from people who REALLY need it.

2006-06-24 [Kelaria]: In the words of my good friend Jon: "Stereotyping is simply grouping people with similar traits. So if you don't want to be called goth, stop wearing black lipstick and chains, duh! (i.e. If you don't want to be labelled, don't wear the label.)" Perhaps not the best choice of words. but he's got a point.

2006-06-24 [Sunrose]: I have been through and am going through similar things as you and I still say you can't judge people like that. Even if I may do it too out of bitterness against the world sometimes (which would be hypocritical, but I never said I was perfect), generally I feel everyone deserves a chance and there might be more to it than you know of. And as for wearing the label, I guess I have double standards there. I'd apply that statement to certain things (ie Lonsdale clothes are often worn by skinheads). The issue here though wasn't about wanting to be called a label or not, but the prejudice that stick to those labels.

2006-06-24 [Kelaria]: I'm not saying people arent individuals. I'm just saying for people who want to be an individual than BE an individual! I'm not stopping them. No one is except themselves. If they want to not be labelled then they need to stop labelling themselves. They say "I'm goth" or "I'm emo." That's a label! They're labelling themselves! They cant complain if they're stereotyped and labelled if they label themselves first.

2006-06-24 [Kelaria]: does that make sense?

2006-06-24 [Kelaria]: I think that maybe my point was misunderstood. So I'm hoping that what I've said just now makes more sense.

2006-06-24 [Sunrose]: It is impossible to be a total individual: you are a group with all the others who say the exact same things as you are now.

2006-06-24 [Kelaria]: The thing is... I may be in a group, but at least I try to be myself. I wear clothes that fit me and that I like personally. I choose not to wear makeup because I dont need it. I act the way I want to and dont conform my behavior a certain way for my friends or anyone else. I am me. The problem is, a lot of people go out and buy clothes because they fit a certain image. They wear the kind of jewelry that fits that image. They act in a certain way that fits that image. I'm talking the hard core goth/emo people who really follow those things. They exist and they've set the stereotype. Now anyone who wants to say they're an "emo" has to deal with that stereotype. I'm not saying it's fair.

2006-06-24 [Kelaria]: I'm just stating a fact.

2006-06-24 [Sunrose]: So basically you can't like things a certain group likes or you'd be considered part of that group and stereotyped against. Even if I understand the point you're making, I still think people deserve more. When looking at stereotypes and trying to apply them to individuals, they hardly ever actually apply to those individuals. At least if you take effort to get to know them.

2006-06-24 [Kelaria]: I'm not saying that necessarily. I'm just saying you have to accept that you'll be stereotyped if you're going act that way and be that way. *shrugs*

2006-06-24 [Sunrose]: And I guess I am just saying I wish it wasn't necessary to have to accept that... :)

2006-06-24 [Kelaria]: Mostly what I was referring to, before I was "attacked" (so it felt) with assumptions that I'm trying to stereotype everyone, was that there are people who are of a certain stereotype or another that are completely rotten and annoying (like the emo-kids who take attention from people who truly need it). There will be stereotypes because it's part of human nature to group people and to analyze people. It's how we make friends and get to know people. It's even part of how we select a mate. Stereotypes exist, whether we like them or not. And they will exist probably forever until the world ends. It's just part of life.

2006-06-24 [Kelaria]: And I'm not saying it's not unfortunate.

2006-06-24 [Sunrose]: Where did you see me state that you stereotype everyone? You are the one now concluding to assumptions. And then actually confirming everyone does it. I wasn't attacking you, I thought we were simply having a discussion. No personal issues or hostility involved from my side, simply sharing ideas and bringing in arguments supporting our views. I might be fiery when discussing, but that's all there is to it. Discussion would only help looking at things from different angles as well as expressing your point more clearly. And my final point still remains: I wish it wasn't necessary to accept it, however I do know and believe it is part of human nature (which I indirectly emphasized earlier).

2006-06-24 [Sunrose]: Doesn't mean though you can't try to not apply them, there are people who can do that :)